Submission details
keybindings and scancodes and mouse reactions
Since most keyboard and Mouse drivers are crappy i'm desperatly in need of an input device behaviour editor.
All input devices report their actions to the system so how come I cannot control how the system reacts to that input.
Lets say i dont want to use certain key's i can alter the scan code. tricky but very usefull for blokking nonsences keys like <ins> or <caps-lock>
What i'm unable to do is blocking or remapping keystrokes like alt-tab or make a custom key-stroke behaviour.
And what about an input device depending mapping table.
Yes I know the input device driver could handle it. But i think it should be up to the system what happens when.
And since Windows is so keen on using it's own drivers, well those drivers have nothing worth adjusting then prehistoric settings.
When using 2 keyboards and/or 2 mouses it is impossible to give them diffent settings.
Build a system keybinding/mouse button editor wich does understand the diffence between a 5 button mouse and a mousepad and keeps track of their settings.
That way i don't have to fight the system with several half working device drivers cause the system won't let me keep/or install the original drivers!
Low
Low
Not fixed
Discussion (32 comments)
hes drunk!
-1
I can think of a real good reason since I have 5 keyboards and 5 mice as well as 5 displays hooked to my box in the living room this allows me to use anyplace in my house essentually to access it 3bedrooms 1 kitchen and the living room itself DUH!
DraggonLord: is that even possible? Wireless keyboards and mice don't have the range to work through more than 1 wall in my experience, and I can't imagine anyone willing to tear up their walls to put keyboard wiring inside them, nor anyone willing to have wires trailing all over the floor of their house all the time.
I've been around since 1989 back then that was the only option hardwire it so the house has to do it through plugs by the cable and phone plugs that were setup. rippiing out walls ROFLMAO it's called fishhook wire feed it though a hole beind baseboard retrieve it and pull it through.
I got
1 gaming keyboard (fang pad) why: gaming
1 Normal keyboard (MS Reclusa) why: typing
1 mouse Logitech G5 to Game and operate the GUI
1 ps2 keyboard Why because the Reclusa only operates after login or during boot setup. The freaking MS thing is incompetable during windows install or at msdos time before the windows starts. So F8 and F5 don't work and pressing a key to boot from cd/dvd is also not working!!!
1 Logitech Dinovo mini to opperate the PC from behind my TV.
2 screens => 2 workplaces with diffent settings.
XP and Win7 are strong and versitile enough to handle it.
It is the lack of driver transparency wich makes it a complete mess.
P&P my ass!! We can keep on blaming manufacturers of the device but even MS can't make them right. So complete the system by taking over the settings!
And I'm pritty pissed about the remarks about being drunk.
75% of all suggestions on this board is nagging about win7 not beatifull enough.
Buy a painting or sculpture!!!!
Win7 is a User Interface! So interface me!
I am suprised we are even talking about drivers for keyboards and mice since Windows 7 features many drivers for hardware like that (and advanced mice, keyboards etc) out of the box, and with device stage.
I'm not talking about drivers!!!!!
I'm talking about the user interface not being in control of the input devices!
Yes you can switch a keyboard off or a mice but it is more easy to pull the plug!
And the other settings are global so useless when there are more input devices connected.
The out of the box drivers block and disturb the manufacturers drivers.
So the system should take over when it comes to adjustabillity.
If you look at the registry there are tons of useless code. Why not add some usefull stuff so we are in control instead of all those lame global wizard settings.
Yes there is an overview of all the devices with pretty pictures.
And all my input devices show up. Cheers!
So i select my G5 mouse and adjust the mouse speed.
What happens the mouse speed of my dinovo changes aswell.
It sucks! So what's the point! If there is nothing to do or change.
And if you manage to get the original drivers installed you are linked to those settings managers.
It's a mess! Not the drivers! But windows itself!!
It's not a mess. You just have unreasonable expectations of a consumer operating system.
Gaming mice and keyboards usually come with their own control panel that allows you to change various settings like mouse speed, key bindings etc. on a per-application as well as global basis, without affecting other input devices. I don't see why Windows should support something that only benefits a small minority of the users and that's already handled by the mouse/keyboard manufacturers.
unreasonable? No unreasonable is the O/S TRYING to tell me HOW to do things you guys are wierd voting down something that makes sense but vote up piddly visual effects.
Scenario I'm in. X-box 360 Game Final Fantasy 11 (this comes in three versions PS2 PC and X-box(I have a PC version and X-box))
Computer X-box Controller Made by M$ sent from bing ok free kewl BUT DOES not have settings to use two of the 12 buttons as an ALT and CTRL as matter of fact 12 button controler only has settings for 10 LAME HUH. Whos fault there is no GUI to set this the O/S or the Maker of the Controller oops must be M$ both by them third party driver had to be retrieved then fight the O/S to load it and use it to tell it to use the buttons I WANT it to use and HOW. microsoft wants thier drivers used or crap to be signed then make the GUI it SHOULD for the Drivers it supplies or with signed drivers make sure it has the GUI for the signiture to be valid.
I'm not unreasonable just know the O/S isnt suppose to tell me how and what to use It's job is to make usage as easy as possible Plug and Play isn't that thier big thing.
If i wanted a simple good looking OS with simple input devices a would have bought a MAC. "one button is enough"
Oh and if i have such an unreasonable request,
why is MS bussy with http://www.microsoft.com/windows/multipoint/default.aspx
Not that i want to opperate the pc from 2 points at the same time.
I totally agree on Draggonlord!
You guys have a strange perception on what an OS should or could do!
Maybe you guys need to look at the dictionairy!
And maybe it's time for MS to devide their releases into levels of flexibility.
Home : No settings only wizards. UAC, multy user etc, 1 sound 1 screen 1 keyboard
Home Looks: Mac clone (Home + aero)
Pro: normal OS no uac, no nitwit wizards multy input + output
Pro looks: normal OS no uac, no nitwit wizards, multy input + output and aero
And if a nitwit is dumb enough to buy a pro version. Well RTFM
seoman wrote:
"Oh and if i have such an unreasonable request,
why is MS bussy with http://www.microsoft.com/windows/multipoint/default.aspx"
Microsoft isn't busy with Multipoint Server to the exclusion of everything else.
And several people using one computer is a much more reasonable scenario than one person using one computer with several different mice and/or keyboards.
As for the rest of your post, it's hard to make any sense of it. If I understand your problem correctly, it's that the default driver for your X-box controller cannot customise all keys. I can see that, but then complain directly to Microsoft Hardware, this isn't an issue with Windows 7 and thus isn't relevant to this site.
seoman wrote:
"Pro: normal OS no uac, no nitwit wizards multy input + output
This is slightly off-topic, but why would you want the so-called Pro version to be less secure?
Comment edited on January 18, 2010, 11:55am
@Indrek: these guys (I'm sure you know the type) are the kind that think "I'm a 'power user', I know what I'm doing, I don't want 'M$' holding my hand and telling me what to do with MY COMPUTER!!!!". This is their justification for turning UAC off. These people will never listen and will never learn, so it's best not to argue about it. This substantial group of users are probably the only reason it's even possible to turn UAC off through the UI.
@anyone ranting about how this obscure topic is supposedly more important than the visuals: no, it clearly isn't. Many visual bugs are likely to be in plain view of every single Windows user, even if not all of them notice it. This is much more serious than <1% (made that statistic up but it's probably true) of people who want to use more than one mouse and keyboard (and the even smaller group that want the absurd level of control being proposed here), and it's also what this site is all about. The Taskforce sites have, since their inception, been about visual bugs and UIs with outdated theming.
@Draggonlord: "unreasonable? No unreasonable is the O/S TRYING to tell me HOW to do things you guys are wierd voting down something that makes sense but vote up piddly visual effects.
Scenario I'm in. X-box 360 Game Final Fantasy 11 (this comes in three versions PS2 PC and X-box(I have a PC version and X-box))
Computer X-box Controller Made by M$ sent from bing ok free kewl BUT DOES not have settings to use two of the 12 buttons as an ALT and CTRL as matter of fact 12 button controler only has settings for 10 LAME HUH. Whos fault there is no GUI to set this the O/S or the Maker of the Controller oops must be M$ both by them third party driver had to be retrieved then fight the O/S to load it and use it to tell it to use the buttons I WANT it to use and HOW. microsoft wants thier drivers used or crap to be signed then make the GUI it SHOULD for the Drivers it supplies or with signed drivers make sure it has the GUI for the signiture to be valid.
I'm not unreasonable just know the O/S isnt suppose to tell me how and what to use It's job is to make usage as easy as possible Plug and Play isn't that thier big thing."
Wow...
Then go make your own OS and stop giving your $$s to M$ (haha...no).
@indrek
I'm pointing out that my request isn't that strange!
I want 2 mouses have their own settings handled by win7.
MS is busy with multiple mouses used at the same time.
If switching users would solve the lack of proper input handling there was not much to complain then i would only dream of it.
Now i'm stuck with a mess.
How is UAC making something secure?
By asking did you started this thread or might it be something obscure?
UAC is an polished "are you sure?" I know people wich do not dare to click ok!!
For them it is a nice feature. They should have bought a mac!
UAC is a joke. When changing the audio output of a program UAC does not tell you your default audio device is getting altered. This is such a ridiculous behaviour.
A program changing your default settings. This program also called MCE is removed from disk. Because i cannot block the "green button" on my dinovo because win7 installs the 'out of the box' driver after boot. The logitech driver works fine until....
And since the registry does only allow pre historic scan codes to reroute i'm f*cked.
No mather if i'm the 1% who notice. It is still a mess.
And if Vista had input handling wich i'm thinking of maybe there werent so much complaints about Vista. Now they have more out of the box drivers, so now it became clear: something is missing in the OS
@calum.cook
Yes you're right about visuals are noticed. And (mis)behavour of the os is something you get acustomed to.
Well from my point of view i'm suggesting better behaviour for the OS, something wich is more logical and not what the majority accepts as normal.
It was normal to calculated with your own brain and write with a pen. If we keep things normal, things will never change!!! So f*ck the majority!
I will tolerate minor flaws or errors on the visual part, but accepting theoretical misbehaviour is something else. Especially when it makes the os impractical.
Yes i switched off uac. No i don't think i now it all.
But i'm able to clean up the mess when something get past my firewall or virus scanner.
And fiddling in the register is at my own risk, i know but i'm trying to make the most of it.
Comment edited on January 17, 2010, 7:53pm
Comment edited on January 17, 2010, 7:55pm
seoman wrote:
"UAC is an polished "are you sure?" I know people wich do not dare to click ok!!"
Ah yes, Calum was right about you then.
And I don't even understand what you're talking about anymore. Have you installed the manufacturer drivers and associated control panel applets for your mice and keyboards? Do they not allow you to customise key bindings and other settings? If yes, then problem solved. If not, complain to said manufacturers directly. If the manufacturer is Microsoft, then contact Microsoft Hardware. This isn't something that Windows needs to be able to handle out of the box.
Inderek, I didn't write that...
Let me Clarify my post the controller is made by microsoft IT DOES NOT HAVE the required number of buttons in it's control panel applet. It's a 12 button controler with 10 buttons settings in the applet. The O/S tries to update the Driver because I use a third party driver Dang Guess it's an O/S ordeal. What you guys don't get these Driver update requests from MS? I have like 4 drivers came from them, thier going to supply them that makes them O/S problems. and the O/S is to supply Drivers, whats being asked is a better GUI(General Control) for these drivers without the basic drivers in the O/S you wouldn't boot up your machine.
If they expect me to use thier drivers they supply for devices NEWS FLASH then YES they do need to supply this GUI correctly out of the box the O/S responsability is to interface me between these devices and help keep my data as I see fit via disk CD whatever. It has others but I'm not listing them all those two are the core basics.
Calum: No thats' not what I'm looking at the deal is the person that DOES NOT know what thier doing my wife for instamce what if she wanted to play on the computer(and of course has no one to help her) the game FFXI (she plays on the X-box) she puts in the controller and can't set the settings as needed whats she to do 1. LIVE with the problem 2. Not use it to play
Read the title banner on this page Find user exp. quirks. pretty big quirk Devices not correctly handled for a plug and play system.
There are a lot of users out there that would have no clue where to even look for a third party driver or figure out a way to even install it once the O/S says it's unsigned your beat.
and Xombie's you just gotta love it no originality but have to post something so go with default make your own lol.
In General: Lost cause I can see people are more worried over small animations of file saving or pop up windows still using XP style look then the fancy GUI it has now instead of making the O/S perform as it Should with thier intent of control.
Just for the record UAC DOES not get turned off and the Machine DOES not run under Admin acccount.
DraggonLord: my bad, got you and seoman mixed up. I changed that in my above comment.
Just can't be bothered, your requirements are one in a billion and you want Microsoft to do it for you. It's just ridiculous.
Thanks Indrex (Edit: Indrek even)
Xombie: then why post anything at all? It's ridiculous to expect the O/S to allow me to Tweak Drivers and set keys for use? Or allow me to set which one I want it to load from boot? How about we go with your evidentury call and REMOVE all Drivers from the O/S load only Manufactures. Then Explain to me how we get into the O/S and load these Drivers since 99.9% are not smart enough to load from dos. Oh wait we would need drivers for the reading device ... not to mention the monitor to see the commands to type in awww bummer yet another thing I need a driver for the input device<sigh> those Graphics looking Good yet? It's a tad more important to control Devices than Graphics of point and click.
Comment edited on January 18, 2010, 4:53pm
DraggonLord wrote:
"It's ridiculous to expect the O/S to allow me to Tweak Drivers and set keys for use?"
Yes, it's ridiculous to expect a *consumer OS* to be able to do that out of the box. You want to tweak drivers? Get the WDK. You want to set keys for use? Use the included software, or if one doesn't exist or isn't sufficient, contact the device manufacturer directly.
"Or allow me to set which one I want it to load from boot?"
Device Manager cannot help there?
no actually it doesn't I had to write it into the ntautoexec
with old fashion load high commands to get the one in the master bedroom to load when rebooting it's a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard seems the thing wouldn't load otherwise but when you have four others connected you do kind of expect a collision, this in no way excuses the O/S from not doing it's Primary Job which is load whatever peripherals I want loaded and use them correctly.
WHY should I program it to use specific keys when the O/S cost me 300 dollars, it should be allowing me to keep control of my devices ALL my Devices as I see fit. After all that is the basic use of an O/S without that basic use it's essentially useless.
Let me guess your take on an O/S is to make your Video Screen look pretty?
It wasn't bought for the pretty Graphics It was bought for controlling security, Programming(.net foundation) and playing games.
I have A WHOLE lot of Hardware my machine controls inside/outside my house no the O/S isn’t expected to control it ALL but the Basics you better believe it. Special programs had to be written to control add on features like cameras outside lights music through the house and we don’t mean that LAME Arse media player for music that never stops running wmpnetwork once you start it need to get into taskmanager to kill. I’m not getting into an argument match here but we obviously have a HUGE difference of opinion on what an O/S is meant for.
And none of this explains why I have to get a third party program to control a x-box 360 controller for PC made and sent by MS.
None of those Graphics mean squat when it decides a driver isn’t compatible any longer and WILL not load
SHUT UP! ON AND ON AND ON, SAYING THE SAME THING EVERY TIME! NO MORE!
"SHUT UP! ON AND ON AND ON, SAYING THE SAME THING EVERY TIME! NO MORE!"
I'm not Speaking I'm Typing shouldn't that be more like sit on your hands and don't keep going on.
Draggonlord wrote:
"And none of this explains why I have to get a third party program to control a x-box 360 controller for PC made and sent by MS."
No one said anything about needing a 3rd party program. If MS is the manufacturer, then contact Microsoft Hardware. Simple as that. How many times do I need to say it? This isn't an issue with Windows 7, it's an issue with your particular piece of hardware. Thus you should complain directly to the manufacturer of said hardware, rather than arguing here which, frankly, is a huge waste of your time as well as ours.
@ indrek
"No one said anything about needing a 3rd party program"
Well we do need them! Manufacturers spend only a certain amount of time to develop their drivers. Are you not aware of how things work in this world? Or are you also one of the majority who beliefs that everything is someone else his problem.
You keep on repeating go to the manufacturer. well here i am.
MS bild this OS, they have responcebillaties too!
Handling inputs is a fundemental task of an OS.
The kernel is so f*cked up the manufacturers lost track of how to bild a OS excepted driver.
With vista MS saw its earnings dropping! Just because of the amount of money their ignorant behaviour towards P&P (cough) cost them, they created a budget for the bild-in drivers.
Well MS finish the job! Finish the device manager! Handle those inputs properly.
seoman wrote:
"You keep on repeating go to the manufacturer. well here i am."
You're barking up the wrong tree. Which part of "Microsoft Hardware" don't you understand?
What hardware? Their is nothing wrong with the hardware!
Do you realy think i would complain about hardware to an OSbuilder?
THEIR IS SOMETHING QUIRKY WITH THE OS!!!!!!
Can your brain finally understand what i'm trying to tell you?
Or maybe you need an thirdparty driver aswell then!
Or should i complain to your parents?
You guys are unbelieveable!
Reading what you want to read. And barking the same empty phrases over and over and over and over and over again.
Are you so impressed by the marketing department or do you guys have such a good insight in the system that you can rule the possibility out?
Or are you guys so simple that if you don't have a problem, you decide there cannot excist a problem.
I'm fed up with it!
If you don't want to except/consider that something might be wrong.
Well please shut up then! Go bark somewere else.
seoman wrote:
"What hardware? Their is nothing wrong with the hardware!
Do you realy think i would complain about hardware to an OSbuilder?"
Is that all you think Microsoft is?
I'll try one last time. Your piece of hardware (along with the drivers, control software etc. for it) was made by Microsoft*, namely their Entertainment and Devices Division. Windows 7, on the other hand, was made by their Platform Products Division. Those are two separate groups within Microsoft, and one cannot be blamed for the blunders of the other. Whatever problems you have with your device should be communicated directly to its manufacturer, NOT be posted on a site dedicated to UX issues. Yes, that's right, this site is dedicated to petty little issues about icons and animations. That's the point. There's plenty of places where you can discuss the more technical problems, not only in Windows 7 but in other Microsoft products as well. This isn't one of those places. Simple as that.
* or maybe it was made by Logitech (hell if I can keep track of everything you're complaining about). In that case, go complain to Logitech. Or whoever made your device.
Okay, I'm done.
Comment edited on January 19, 2010, 8:53am
Indrek the O/S has the option for an update so obviously the O/S Microsoft THE MANUFATURER of the Controller AND the O/S both one and the Same have been contacted and informed it's pretty LAME to send me a controller with 12 buttons and only able to set 10. Return is the GENERAL FORM BS we are sorry for any incovieniance and are working on correcting the problem. IF the O/S recognizes it and wants to update it's drivers sorry but yes they are responsable for each others blunders obviously the O/S department is informed the driver exists make sure to update it and use it DUH. This is getting old the O/S does not handle Divers well IT DOES not give enough interface to the DRIVERS it Does SUPPLY that IT MUST in order to be an O/S which is the main complaint NOT enough access to the components that has to be there for it to be an O/S More keyboard control more mouse control Heck I don't really care about the gampad thats actually an extra but if it wants to bug me for an update then supply the right one. I don't care about Divisions Microsoft is Microsoft NO MATTER HOW MANY DIVISIONS IT HAS. believe me if you contact the wrong one they move you to the right one it's still one and the same.
Over and over and over again
-the os fails to re-recognise the device after boot and installs an inferiour driver.
-as long as i keep my devices connected the os should not start it's P&P destroyer but it seems like it starts P&Ping every boot.
- they ditched user depending scancode mapping
- scancode mapping is incomplete. supports only 8bit scancodes. Must i point out i run an x64 OS
-os reports connected devices but give incomplete information.
- there is no way to lock a driver to a device.
- uninstalling a driver does not alter the beaviour of the device.
To your opinion the 3th to xxth mouse button are not supported by the os well they are. Cause even after deinstall the mouse driver, all settings are kept but hidden some were in the OS. I thought i uninstalled the device.
-There are thousands of unlisted keybindings, scancodes, mouse button settings wich are unreachable but functional. That is absurd!
-Since spending a lot of waisted time on the UAC i would like an OSAC
"OS acces control" to stop it for altering settings without my permission.
Calum.Cook wrote on January 16, 2010, 6:46pm
God, what are you on about...? What is the point? And WHY are you using two keyboards and two mice for God's sake? -1